The Mentalist > The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker > Comments Page 13
I think Jane wears his ring because 1) it reminds him of the price his family paid, and 2) he does not know if he can risk the grief we all bank away when we love. Grief is the price we pay for love.
I think Jane liked Kristina and he disliked the aspects that reminded him of himself. Jane likes and admires people who are like him, people who aren't marks. His wife was from the same world. We are to understand that she didn't care for Jane's chosen profession and wanted him to quit. Still coming from the same world allowed her to get it and accept that she loved a liar, con man, psychic who preyed off of the needs of others (and give them a sense of hope and/or control) to afford their lifestyle. Lisbon is unique and where she comes from is vastly different. It could be that she is as remarkable to Jane as Jane is to her. Jane may feel special that she could love him and he may or may not even feel unworthy at a some level. We don't know. The audience knows that they are special t
I also agree about Kristina. It was almost like Patrick had to push himself to like her. Why? There was too much about her that would be permanent in her personality that he had to get past to be with her. I never understood it either. In the end, he wouldn't let go of Angela to pursue Kristina. I'm glad. Making her catatonic gives the writers a chance to reanimate her, like a zombie. I don't want to see Zombie Kristina. Begone!
cont't from below @me.if I don't explore this relationship, i might be protecting myself out the best relationship i've ever had. i've gotten a taste of what life without him was like and it was awful. i feel so proud that he has chosen me.; proud that he tells me how special i am i think i'm always feel protected by his incredible intellect. if i have a problem he'll help me solve it and probably bring a brand new spin to it. i think he still has deep guilt about the fate of his wife and daughter but he's gotten justice for them and can move on. i think with this horrible quest behind him, we'll have fun, we'll travel. he's so comfortable in so many worlds, i know my life will expand and make me a better person. i will help him get his life back. and if it fails and we aren't meant to be, i will have taken a chance on life with the most remarkable man i've ever met.
that's what i would have to do. that's what lisbon should do.
@me i'm lisbon. patrick jane has just killed red john. He's declared himself and I have a chance to marry patrick. the most brilliant, beautiful, fun, insightful man I've ever known. i have observed him over the last nine years. he's troubled. relentless in his pursuit of the man who killed his wife and family. he's was secretive about the moves he made in that direction. he isolated himself from all relationships. he wouldn't let the danger of the pursuit deter him. he knew what he seeked to do is against the law and was prepared to take the consequences. but he's also a good friend. no one sees the world like he does and he brings out the fun part of my personality and has loosened me up in my approach to my job and my life. no charges have been brought against him. he's free and now he's asking for my answer. this may wind up being a rocky road but i can't give myself the safe way out. Someone truly remarkable wants me in his life. Time for me to be brave. if I do
@me. true rj must have disliked being spoken to like a criminal who should seek the light in the hands of a kind, careerist named kristina frye. of course if rj was being consistent, kristina would have come home to find her mom, pop, cat dead. since, butter wouldn't melt in that woman's mouth, she couldn't be hurt that way. rj had to use the direct approach which, as an added bonus, hurt jane. just thinking that two women have had hostile worlds with patrick when he told them he was trying to protect them. kristina in red sky in the morning and susan (fbi) in, i think, always bet on red.
@huisclothes, I agree 100% about Kristina. Don't know what he saw in her. I think he went out mainly because Hightower pushed him and to test if he was ready. I don't think he had any strong feelings for her...he barely knew her. He was about to end the date early, so that would have been the end of things if RJ hadn't taken her. I'm sure RJ knows that (he clearly knows everything...kind of like Santa Claus...and knew the Roll Tide ref so must have been watching them), which is another reason I think he took Kristina to punish Kristina for her TV appearance and not to hurt Jane.
cont'd: In real life, many people lose a spouse and go on to have very happy 2nd marriages. Others don't because they can't truly get over the first spouse. I know some of each. I have no idea which Jane is. We can't really know at this point
I partially agree. I guess I see there being two possibilities for his feelings about Angela and still wearing the ring.
1) He carries vast amounts of guilt because he thinks he caused her death and is punishing himself by remaining alone. Getting RJ will give closure, let him shed the guilt and move on with whoever. If Angela had died in a car accident he would have likely moved on and started dating again after a year or so.
2) His love for Angela is so intense, so once in a lifetime/ soul matey that he will never feel anything as deep for any other woman ever again. Even if she had died a natural death, he would have spent many years mourning.
Case 1- maybe I would take a chance on Jane after RJ. Case 2 - no way, too risky. It would just be setting myself up for a lifetime of being 2nd best or a consolation prize and I would want better for myself.
So I guess it depends on which scenario you believe about Jane. In real life, many people lose a spouse and go on to hav
@rationalgal. ohhh. you think the end will be precipitated by lisbon trying to sacrifice herself for jane? whoa. interesting.
@entwife. yeah. erica didn't fit the mold. but i think she was obviously a sporting woman hoping to get something out of jane. her freedom, his body? both, i think. i know we're all talking about kristina being a love interest for jane. i've mentioned this before but i despised kristina. humorless, self-righteous, sadistic low-life. i thought any interest jane showed in her seemed completely contrived. please let her stay catatonic.
@rationalgal. interesting to think about laroche again and his list of five. i would love him to come back. such a great character. it just hit me that minelli furnished patrick with laroche's list at the end of jolly red elf, right? then we find patrick trying to get laroche's list from laroche. is that just a stitch they didn't pick up or will it mean something? btw, the guy in the limo was a younger, clean shaven kirkland.
@me. funny! yes, wrap him up, i'll take him.
@me. if patrick declared love for lisbon, i think she'd have to be pretty insecure to worry about competition from the long lost angela. like in any second or third time-around relationship, angela would be an important part of his history. jane would share more about her with lisbon and that would help lisbon understand him more. unless she has to wear a photo of angela in bed, lisbon would, and i think should, deal with it.
you actually make the best argument for patrick and teresa not getting together -- jane knowing that he couldn't move on even after the demise of red john. don't think he would ever take up with lisbon if that was the case.
@Huisclothes, I still disagree with you guys on the homoerotic thing, but it is interesting to think about and I hadn't thought of it before it was brought up here, so thanks for the interesting discussion.
In terms of his good vs bad qualities, I think we just prioritize things differently. What is a deal breaker for one person if often no big deal for another. So Jane is all yours. I won't be fighting you for him - although Lisbon and Lorelei might! LOL just having a little fun :-)
@rational gal. interesting to have lorelei kill red john. it would be a fitting end to rj. but i'd feel bad for jane. he just has to pull the trigger there.
@me. if a guy is obsessed with another guy and saves him and strokes him and releases him when he would have killed anyone else and and entreats him to become his friend and shares his mistress with him, there's something there that goes beyond enjoying a joust with an intellectual equal. i doubt they'll ever deal with this subtext. it's obviously a hot button. re: the pros and cons of jane. i don't see him as moody. he's secretive because he needs to be - often to protect other people. he's exciting. he's audacious. he's in agony but he keeps his spirits up. yeah, he's a rogue and a tease and a manipulator and he's above the rules. if i were lisbon, i'd say, "where do i sign?" we'll see.
Continued: That indicates he knows Bertram is probably tied to RJ in some way, no doubt along with Brenda and Ardiles. As for Kristina, I'm suspicious of that living dead trance she's in. It looks like a plot device to bring her back later. I suspect it's faked and she is tied to RJ as well, perhaps as a lover. As others have noted, the end will surely have Lisbon in great danger from RJ, perhaps when he sees no other way to defeat Jane than to kill someone he loves. Lisbon will do her preordained sacrificial thing to save Jane and Jane will choose to save her rather than take a sure-fire opportinity to kill RJ. He will choose Lisbon over revenge in this scenario. His hallucinations have already suggested as much. Someone else will kill RJ. I nominate Lorelei.
When Jane was in the limo with RJ, RJ admitted Jane's plot had been working until RJ's informant in the FBI alerted him. So for a while RJ actually thought Jane had killed Lisbon for him. Mashburn seemed too attracted to Lisbon for him to order Lisbon killed so, as appealing as he is as RJ, it's hard to see that as credible. I think the FBI at a high level knows who RJ is (he rides around in a limo for pete's sake!) but does not have enough evidence for arrest and conviction, especially since RJ is wealthy, powerful and influential. I suspect the FBI is using Jane to lure RJ into something he can be convicted on. I suspect LaRoche is the FBI person in charge of monitoring Jane and bringing down RJ. He handed over that list of names too easily. Chances are, there is nothing significant (for this story) in that Tupperwear box. LaRoche has been caring and helpful to Lisbon and seems fond of Jane. He also knows about the William Blake poems from his response to Bertram's recitation of one.
True, Me, Erica does not fit the pattern I was talking about. However, there was no threat to RJ that she would stick around to be with Jane, her goal was to escape, get out of town and settle someplace far away. And Jane was not about to follow her. So RJ didn't need to waste any effort on it. Even if there is a homoerotic dynamic going on, it won't be explicitly expressed on the show. At all. Just my surmises.
I agree, KM, good points and bad points. Me lists his bad ones very well. But his awesome fine points as described by huisclothes are delicious!
Consider me as one who sees Jane as a very human; both a great catch and a lousy catch. His character is both sides of the coin. And he knows it. Perhaps that is why Lisbon has a stabilizing force for him? She can and does love both sides, the whole man. Perhaps that is what he intended to mean when he told himself through the vision of his daughter that someone does know him? (I thought it sweet that his daughter approved.) Part of Jane's mind is ready to move on. But, will he allow himself to be loved deeply and passionately again, and to accept that with all his faults and mistakes, et cetera that he could be twice blessed with a family, remains unknown. Just 2¢.
Huisclothes, I don't see Jane as such a great catch. Yes, I agree with you on his positive traits- though i have to disagree on him being a sharp dresser. 3 piece suits went out of style long ago and those shoes are atrocious. But that is a matter of personal taste, so I respect your opinion.
In my view, his negative traits are pretty bad. Lies constantly (even to his friends), secretive, moody, at least slightly mentally unstable, obsessive, questionable morals (yes, we probably disagree on this one. But I just don't believe the ends always justify the means.) He often is a real ass, even to Lisbon, the person closest to him who has done so much for him. And finally, if I was looking for a romantic partner, I would worry about his obsession with his dead wife. 10 years is a long time to still wear a wedding ring. I would worry that I would always be second best, or a consolation prize. What woman wants to deal with that? Lisbon deserves better.
cont'd: Things went further with Erica than they went with Kristina (intense kiss vs a bad date with no physical contact). Frankly, if I was going to be jealous, I would be much more jealous of Erica than Kristina. I just don't see this homoerotic aspect that you guys are discussing.
I see no homoerotic aspect to Red John's game with Jane. It seems pretty clear to me that he just enjoys a sparring partner that is close to his level of intelligence. Jane is first and only family member of a victim to try to go after Red John. That alone makes Jane interesting. Add in Jane's elaborate plots to catch RJ, and he becomes a fun diversion. He feels Jane is a worthy adversary. He asked for Lisbon's head because he knows that is the person Jane cares most about. I see nothing indicating jealousy. If anything, perhaps he sees Jane as his potential heir (If RJ was seriously considering retiring, as Timothy Carter had said). Jane could be a way for Red John's legacy to live on. But certainly not homoerotic. I think he did what he did to Kristina because she said what she did about him on TV, just like Jane did. He would have gone after her even if she never had the date with Jane. He never went after Erica Flynn. Things went further with Erica than they went with
Hi, huisclothes. Good point about Susan, fits the pattern I'm talking about. Your analysis of Walter Mashburn is really credible. Really the best evidence I've seen for Mashburn as Red John. Actually, it's hard to make a case for anybody considering what the writers have given us. But your theory hangs together very well. I'm really looking forward to all being revealed!
greetings entwife. thanks for your analysis of the subtext beneath red john's interest in patrick. some great points about him eliminating kristina instantly and taunting patrick. "kristina would send her love." jealous boyfriend vibe is a perfect description. makes me think about when patrick told lisbon he thought susan (fbi agent) had great legs and red john immediately stalked her and tried to get patrick to join in. would be weird if he was tapping lisbon's office.
on another subject. this is the first time i've speculated about red john's identity. when patrick and lisbon had lunch with mashburn, walter mentioned all his wives. linus wagner, in his forged note to patrick, called red john's victims wives. don't know if he got that from some real red john info. mashburn went on to identify patrick as a psychic and said one of his wives was into psychics. certainly angela jane was.
Great scorekeeping on Patrick Jane's awesome fine points, huisclothes!
I don't necessarily believe RJ is homosexual. We really don't know enough about him to say that. I'm just saying there's a homoerotic dynamic going. It may just be something with Patrick rather than an actual orientation.
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