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Jane: This is Red John. Lisbon: How can you tell? Jane: Because when it's him I can feel it.
February 18th, 2013 5:31 PM
lisbon has to be the key. she could be the instrument of jane's release from his obsession. killing red john for him, helping patrick kill him but without paying the consequences. taking red john in and helping patrick make peace with that. or lisbon will die at red john's hands and throw patrick into madness. lisbon will save patrick from red john and kill red john. lisbon could vow to never see patrick again if he kills red john. patrick realizes that she's more important than his obsession and he lets it go. thinking about patrick breaking his celibacy and getting closer to lisbon and having the professor come on to him. interesting (if it's the last season), if he and lisbon actually get together, even if they just get drunk. we get an ep or two and then rj comes on the scene. might make jane's choices more poignant. what if lisbon's pregnant?
February 18th, 2013 5:18 PM
"Any fans of Castle would remember a similar scene from season one, but it's taken Jane and Lisbon to season five to get to that level of flirting although it makes it no less fun to watch."
I thought the same thing when I saw this scene! It was one of my favorite scenes on Castle and now this is one of my favorites on The Mentalist. Very different characters but it worked in both cases.
February 18th, 2013 5:02 PM
I never have seen a deeper meaning to any of the shows. I don't look for hidden clues or anything. I agree about RJ. We will be disapointed. I often get disapointed that Jane comes off "all knowing" while the "trained cops" often look dumb a follow Janes lead like they couldn't close a case without him. Sometimes, I wish Jane was wrong and the team was right about something........anything related to the case. The show is written as Jane being smarter then everyone except Red John (as he has been one step ahead of him for the time being) and I kind get board with this and want something new and different.
February 18th, 2013 4:57 PM
There really is a deeper meaning but it can't be carried out well due to the commercial need to stretch the series out. This is an allegory about life and death, good and evil, tragedy and redemption. The death of Jane's family sent him into madness, from which he recovered only by focusing on getting revenge - the only redemption he could accept. The wedding ring indicates he can never let go of the past untill he gets his revenge. He sees no future other than death or prison, so he forms no emotional attachments he will recognize as such, tho they are there. He covers his core anguish with light banter and fun stuff. Perhaps Lisbon can save him from the death/prison ending somehow. Maybe that's her role. This series should have been a coherent movie so the plot could be developed coherently. But it's still the most intelligent series on TV.
February 18th, 2013 4:51 PM
ok. i can't help myself. why the hell would they make a point of having the museum director bring up the moreno case - "you're the same team that worked on the moreno case" - if they weren't going to use it in some way in the future? they go to the trouble of casting the same guy and identifying this as the same museum. was this just to satisfy nit-pickers such as myself that knew it was the same place? they could easily have shot on this location but made it about the labs and campus. was the museum stuff there just so the director could use the whole location? museum shots are pretty but still. very annoying if it's not going anywhere.
February 18th, 2013 4:13 PM
@bw&r it's true. maybe there is less there than meets the eye at this point. i hope not.
if i go back to the beginning, this show has kicked me in the head time after time. it hurt but it's a good kind of hurt.
i hope they can continue doing it.
i guess i can't help but look for meaning. the mentalist and all its characters are in my head everyday and i only get 42 fresh minutes of them every couple of weeks. so it makes sense that i chew on each episode slowly and then make a weak broth from the bones to extract every bit of goodness.
February 18th, 2013 4:10 PM
@BW@Red- that's exactly the point I was trying to make - but you stated it much more clearly. I'm afraid I'm already in that mode - I think the RJ story is shallow and lots of people will be very disappointed at the end. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
Rank: Recurring Character
February 18th, 2013 4:08 PM
I still enjoyed a very fair amount, but this is what I mean by when I always say I can't help but think "what could have been" with this show alot now. There just missing some opportunities, the plot just could be deeper, more connected and capitalize on many more opportunities. We shouldn't have a case where we have to divide episodes into "Red John episodes" vs "no Red John entirely fun episodes". There should be a greater fine line and equilibrium between them.
February 18th, 2013 4:06 PM
thanks bw&r you don't ramble. you are one of my faves.
Rank: Recurring Character
February 18th, 2013 4:06 PM
And I'll say one last thing; we tend to give the show alot of benefit of the doubt. They'll show us something and we'll assume there's a deeper meaning and that it could come back to play later in the series. We assume little is a coincidence. Heck somebody on here will probably argue there setting up the museum scene for later in the series and Bertram for a more in depth view later on with potential RJ ramifications. But at what pt do we just say; there really anything as deep as we like to believe here? That the RJ plot perhaps is really rather shallow? I'm not ready to fully go into that mode, but I think it's at least time to start pondering that question and at the very least not just assume everything has a deeper meaning and that there is a deeper symbolism and message the show wants us to take away. Because if we don't have a good idea of what it is by season 5, that's a problem. I'm probably being too harsh on the show, even this imperfect performance last night I still enjoy
February 18th, 2013 4:01 PM
@rationalgal. like your analyses of them planting the seeds of things to come. i do hope you're right. i was disappointed and thought they missed a lot of opportunities to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to playing the short game - being cute as a button - and the long one you describe. could have given us an eye-dropper of where moby dick was headed.
Rank: Recurring Character
February 18th, 2013 4:00 PM
@huisclothes: That was amazing analysis and I agree with every single thing you said. In 2 posts you said everything I wanted to in my long rants that are always unorganized and usually don't make much sense. There were sooooo many missed opportunities, the show did such a bad with the museum idea that I didn't even realize that was where Hightower was framed 2 yrs back there until after the episode. And they could have gone further with the Bertram thing also(also are they ever going to show those FBI agents they hyped up before the season again---last night would have been the perfect opportunity). All in all, this was a cute little episode, clearly trying to gnaw at the viewers and generate some ratings with some of those fun scenes. But like you said this is season 5, you gotta be at a deeper stage by now.
February 18th, 2013 3:57 PM
@rationalgal - I used to look for deeper meanings on this show, but gave up a while back. I know the fans see deeper meaning in everything, but most of the time nothing comes from these seemingly significant scenes. Honestly, the writers have enough trouble keeping the main story arcs on track, I just don't think they deliberately write deeper meanings in very often. There are some major plot holes in the Mentalist. I think it is all the writers can do to try to keep that from spiraling out of control. That being said, I did love this episode. Perhaps, in part, because it wasn't involved in the longer story arcs that are so frustrating for me to watch.
February 18th, 2013 3:54 PM
cont'd i liked the ease and acceptance between jane and lisbon. even when lisbon said "if he ever comes into work," it was with knowing affection. loved her lying on her couch and jane at her table. very different dynamic to have a woman lying on her back. ever since the volker case, they seem to hole up in her office. they really play nice together. i like that the professor hit on him at the end. i never understand why every woman character doesn't show up and take her blouse off so this was nice. note: were those not the worst bangs anyone ever wore? like she put one big roller in front. she's beautiful. she was the reporter/slash terrorist on homeland. wha happened?
all in all, cute. but this is year five. i need a little depth with my adorable. see my prior post for all the (my opinion) missed opportunities. we could have had the PG and the adult version in the same episode.
February 18th, 2013 3:42 PM
I thought this ep was fascinating because I tend to look for deep meanings. This season has been full of them, a signal the series is winding down. Lisbon fainted so the writers would have an excuse for her to be lying on Jane's couch, with Jane working at a desk. Total switch! Why? Jane helps Bertram learn how not to be a loser at poker, setting up Bertram to do something for Jane when Jane needs it. Jane continues to encourage Lisbon to acquire mentalist abilities, this time through poker so when Bertram tries to undermine or use her, she will know how to get the upper hand. Is Jane training Lisbon on how to survive without him? Is this a portent of a Moby Dick ending? OMG! Let's hope not! Also: Loved that museum guy with the cute accent!
February 18th, 2013 3:41 PM
cont'd from below. red in tooth and claw was pleasant. but it kept raising my hopes and then crashing them to the ground. the ep started in the museum where moreno, the antiquities dealer was killed! where hightower was framed for this by a red john operative! same museum director! the head of the program specializes in the evolutionary components of murder! never mentioned again. thud, dead ball. lisbon is still playing poker with the hotshots to which fbi jane-hater mancini introduced her. thud. jane gets up close and personal with bertram, an enemy and william blake quoter. someone on laroche's rj compatriot list, someoe who shook jane's hand. thud. all of these possibly multi-layered issues were reduced to their superficialities. the museum, poker, evolution of murder, bertram. cont'd
February 18th, 2013 3:34 PM
Last night's episode was great. Episodes like this one are what make the show so enjoyable, in my opinion at least. Great interaction between all the team members. Lots of fun banter. And none of the doom and gloom that had been hanging over the show for much of this season. This episode reminded me of season one, which in my opinion was the best season of the show. This is why I started watching to begin with.
Rank: Recurring Character
February 18th, 2013 3:26 PM
@marisa1983: CBS had to make a decision. They decided that TM wasnt generating enough revenue between its syndication deal issues and declining ratings(and probably other factors we don't know about like maybe that they knew the show was coming to an end sooner rather than later due a drying out storyline) wasn't worth being one of their shows they feature in a big time slot. That's their decision and we'll never know the finances behind it but there was a lot of thought behind that decision. It's not really sabotaging the show, they just decided the upside and potential of TM wasn't there and it wasn't generating enough revenue to put it in a feature slot vs something else. You have to earn being in that Thursday night slot, and TM wasn't cutting it according to CBS. Perhaps more importantly there wasn't long term potential with the show to keep it there. You don't want to have a show in a big time slot and then have it dissapear like that next season, you want it to be a bit smoother
February 18th, 2013 3:23 PM
last night's episode struck me as one where the writer wrote with a mandatory checklist push-pinned on the wall in front of him or her. jisbon physical contact moment - worms, check. jane into some little boy preoccupation - dinosaurs, check. jane shows carny expertise - poker, check. jane manipulates bigwig on behalf of deserving innocent - bertram/grace, check. jane is physically adorable - dances, check. jane hauls out warhorse of a psychic secret that he says anyone can do but really no one can do - memory palace, check. jane demonstrates sleight of hand, picks lock, check. jane engineers public demonstration of his jane-ness to humiliate killer - master class, check. rigsby does dumb things, purses lips smaller and smaller and bores crap out of me, check. cho is master of deadpan and manliness and makes me worship him. question is, did i like it?
February 18th, 2013 3:22 PM
I believe Elementary is own by CBS. Is that right? Anyway, I think they brought that on and put it on Thursday because it IS so similiar to TM. (I only watched it a couple of times) I think CBS wants ti replace TM with something they own, and "hopes" to get the ratings that TM brought in. (Of course, it does not, but CBS is still very high on it, even giving it the Post Superbowl prime spot, which didn't help it, but that is beside the point). I think CBS has been looking for its own TM for sometime and will keep Elementary and see if it can grow. I don't see it in danger.
H5O has a syndication deal, but not the number of required eps. yet so they will keep it until it does. So it is safe.
It is a fight between TM, TGW and CSI: NY. I am not sure, but isn't a new NCIS show coming in next year? Cbs is already over crowded and will cut something.
Rank: Recurring Character
February 18th, 2013 3:12 PM
@KM, many sites may list the show as on the bubble, but the most reliable source is TVLine. They somehow never get it wrong.
Rank: Recurring Character
February 18th, 2013 3:08 PM
I don't get why they would choose between The Good Wife and The Mentalist. Both shows have a strong following in bad timeslots. Both of them were doing great on weekdays. Meanwhile H50 and CSIs aren't doing that great and are kept on weekdays... And what about Elementary who replaced The Mentalist and isn't doing very good in the demo (and in total viewers)? So I don't agree that they would cancel TGW or TM. They should at least give them respectable timeslots and these two shows would do better.
Rank: Recurring Character
February 18th, 2013 2:58 PM
I agree with everyone worried they might canceled the Mentalist. In my honest opinion, CBS took a great, successful show and sabotaged it. Last year on thursday evening they pulled off an averaged 13 million viewers. Now they moved it to the graveyard (sunday 10pm) with an unstable schedule (football, awards, golf, etc.) I know the fans are angry and CBS doesn't seem to be listening. I'm lucky because I live in Canada and I watch in on CTV (without delays) but I feel bad for you guys in the US.
Rank: Recurring Character
February 18th, 2013 2:36 PM
is 42%. 42% is not very high. And that 75% is completely arbitrary, CSI NY probably has a better than 25% of being renewed. So alot has to go right for us, and I think the show already knows its fate of whether or not its going to be back and it will probably come out in the storylines and show. When you see this much banter after none of it in a long time, a different type of focus, see characters contemplating leaving like Lisbon did, dropping so many bombs of RJ and Visualize knowledge in one episode after yrs of mostly leaving us hanging, and seeing the show going back to old repeated stories like Rigsby-Van Pelt for lack of a better option, its not a positive and makes you wonder how can there be a sixth season next year when the storylines are starting to dry out badly? But this is all speculation and pondering, its best to stick with what we know which is we need 3 things to happen for another season.
Rank: Recurring Character
February 18th, 2013 2:31 PM
Yeah I forgot about Bruno running a new show which obviously isn't a good sign. @KM makes some good pts about the syndication deals. The one good thing going is that CBS has horrible track record with premiering dramas mid season as they are with Golden Boy: the last one to be renewed was in 2006. I think Good Wife is a safe bet to be renewed. That really means this comes down to CSI NY vs Mentalist vs CBS wanting to cut back on their dramas. That link @KM showed about CBS wanting to keep the primetime lineup mostly the same is a little encouraging as is the fact that CSI: NY is ending early this year(which is a sign the show might be done as it was with CSI: Miami last year). That's why sites have listed CSI: NY as more likely cancelled than renewed. If CSI: NY is indeed cancelled, Golden Boy flops and CBS wants to keep the same number of dramas, then the Mentalist will be back. But that's 3 if's. Even if each one has a roughly 75% of happening hypothetically the chance all 3 happen i