On the Arrow Season 4 Episode 7 Round Table, we're talking a lot about death and it's meaning on Arrow.
Was Andy Diggle's return from the dead a success and does the theme in general have a deeper meaning? Thea's story also took a dramatic turn when it was discovered she's immune to Damien Darhk's magic, but he alleviate's her blood lust.
Join panelists Lindsay MacDonald, Liz Estey, Hank Otero, Caralynn Lippo and Carissa Pavlica for discussion and debate now...
What are your thoughts on Andy Diggle's return from the dead?
Lindsay: I'm not too hot on it, just because Andy's death was such a defining thing for Diggle's character these last few years. I'm never a fan of shows playing take-backs like that, especially since Arrow has been resurrecting people left and right.
Liz: I'm with Lindsay on this. So far very few people have stayed dead. Except Moira. RIP Moira. If nobody ever really dies, what are the stakes?
Hank: Three for three guys, I agree completely. The show is bringing too many people back from the "dead." It's getting a little old, and honestly Dig was probably better off remembering Andy as he was. This guy seems like a real disappointment. Of course, there's more to the story.
Caralynn: Yeah, I think we're all in agreement here. I'm still hopeful that they tie Andy's resurrection into the ongoing story in a more meaningful way but for now it was just another obvious cheap emotional ploy. Not a fan.
Carissa: I'm really sick of people coming back from the dead. Arrow is officially a night time soap opera. Now all I need is for the characters of Young and the Restless to put on masks and my life is complete. Oh, wait, Justin Hartley already WAS the Green Arrow. My life is ALREADY complete. Carry on.
Damien Darhk outed Lance as a mole with his clever "note on the desk" trick. He also knows he's working with Green Arrow. What else did that tell him and what are the consequences?
Lindsay: Let's hope Lance doesn't try to keep playing both sides because he has officially been made. I'm guessing he'll be 100% back on Team Arrow soon.
Liz: Lance would be stupid to go back to Darhk. (Although Lance has been stupid before). I hope he goes back to Team Arrow, but that doesn't seem likely. Perhaps he will get sucked into HIVE even more.
Hank: Perhaps the consequences are that Lance is the one that ends up six feet under? It seems unlikely Felicity will be the one to die. It could be Thea, but my money's on Quentin. Now that Darhk knows the truth, I think papa Lance's days are numbered.
Caralynn: I am so convinced that the consequences will be Lance in that grave by season's end. The note on the desk trick was also super obvious; that was definitely a facepalm moment. How did Lance not realize that pointing team Arrow in the direction of Darhk's next move immediately after Darhk confronted him for being untrustworthy would be just a tiny little bit suspicious??
Carissa: Lance is already a 100% back on Team Arrow, right? He's just not allowed to announce it because, well, Damien Darhk would get a lit-tle su-spi-cious. I think further consequences of the note issue are that he'll be able to piece together the other people on Team Arrow now, as well as make the connection between mayoral candidate Oliver Queen and the Green Arrow. All lives are in jeopardy, if you ask me.
What are your thoughts on Thea being impervious to Damien's magic/mysticism, in a way?
Lindsay: Thea's story is my favorite of the year. There are so many questions and so many different ways this can be played out or resolved, so I'm eager to see more of it. As for being impervious to death magic, there's a lot to unpack there, mystically speaking. At least it makes her a great asset for Team Arrow!
Liz: I like this as a twist. My first instinct would be it's related to the pit in some way, but maybe Thea has powers beyond that. I agree with Lindsay, in terms of endless possibilities. It was definitely a smart move dramatically to make Thea resistant to Darhk's powers.
Hank: I think it's definitely related to the pit and Thea's bloodlust. While I didn't see this twist coming, I really liked it. She can't go around killing pedophiles or Malcolm's assassins forever, so this Darhk alternative is interesting. Still, Thea's playing with fire.
Caralynn: This was easily the most interesting thing to happen in this episode, and I'm intrigued about where it'll go for sure! I'm really glad that it gives us an out and we don't have to deal with Malcolm feeding rando criminals and bad guys to Thea for her to slaughter week after week. That would have gotten old real quick.
Carissa: It has to be a Lazarus Pit thing, and it's definitely a cool twist. She can be a magical Team Arrow shield. HA!
Damien absorbs Thea's bloodlust, and she has a plan to make it permanent with Malcolm. Good idea or bad idea and why?
Lindsay: Great idea, mainly because it gives Thea a really interesting side-plot outside of the typical crime-fighting. Not to mention, it brings Malcolm Merlyn back on the scene, which I'm always glad for.
Liz: So far it seems like the only good option for Thea to get rid of her blood lust. Killing people as a sort of sacrifice would make her miserable.
Hank: It's probably not a great idea, since they're going to be meddling with forces they don't understand. Is the plan to kidnap Damien Darhk and force him to absorb Thea's bloodlust once a month? I seriously doubt that Darhk and Meryln will strike some kind of deal. I don't know, it seems to me like this plan is going to cause more trouble than it's worth.
Caralynn: Good idea, if only because it's better than the bloodlust-abating alternative of Thea sacrificing people monthly. I'm sure, like Hank said, that there will be troubling consequences, but I still think it's the preferable option to Thea going around being all murder-y. And yes, more Malcolm is always a good thing!
Carissa: Malcolm can't out Thea as Speedy. The entire team in then in jeopardy. She's definitely not impervious to Damien Darhk. If he ever touches Thea, he'll recognize her immediately and connect her with Speedy. Definite risk. Oliver never thought he'd greet Darhk, but he did. And while Darhk can't kill Thea with magic, he can with a gun. It's worrisome all around.
Oliver thew down the guantlet with Damien Darhk. What do you expect to be the result of that?
Lindsay: Nothing good. Let's just hope Darhk doesn't retaliate by targeting the people in Oliver's public life ‐ right now that's Felicity and Thea, two of the big contenders for the flash forward grave inhabitant.
Liz: I think Oliver is now at war with Darhk on two fronts, it will be difficult for Team Arrow to put out fires both in public, and "in the shadows." It definitely creates more material.
Hank: Lindsay, that's exactly what's coming next. Darhk will attempt to put the fear of God into Oliver by targeting his loved ones. I mentioned Lance being the one six feet under, but it could always be Thea as well. I hear Roy Harper is making his way back to Star City, and that can't be good. I imagine it's going to take something major for Arsenal to resurface. Could Speedy's life be in danger? Hopefully they don't dip her back in the pit.
Caralynn: I agree with Lindsay, Darhk is going to bring out the big guns now that he has an identifiable foe in Oliver Queen (as opposed to his masked foe in Green Arrow). I still don't think Thea or Felicity will die, but I'm sure Darhk will do a lot of menacing now that Oliver's crossed him.
Carissa: Darhk is definitely going to try to make Oliver's life hell. If he's matched him with Green Arrow, it will be even worse. If he hasn't, he'll be trying even harder to get dirt on both of Oliver's identities. There will be an all out assault on Oliver's life from different angles by Damien Darhk. How unenviable.
Are "resurrections" being forced down our throats to give the person in the grave that much more impact? Will it work? Will you believe them to be gone gone?
Lindsay: I'm guessing that's why the showrunners made such a point of saying that this death will be big, real, and permanent. Whoever is in that grave is not coming back EVER, which will be a relief since people are getting resurrected left and right these days.
Liz: It's possible. It feels more like the resurrections are helping them really force the theme of redemption. Given what happened with Nyssa destroying the Lazarus Pit, it feels like the grave is pretty finite.
Hank: Nyssa only destroyed one Lazarus Pit, there are several in the comics. I do think they've overdone it with the resurrections, but the characters seem to be learning from their mistakes as well. I doubt there will be any attempts to bring back the person in the grave. Let them rest in peace; whoever they are I think they've earned it.
Caralynn: I hadn't thought of that, with the resurrections serving a larger meta purpose to underscore the big death in the flashforward. I do believe that whoever is in the grave is gone for real, for good, if only because it would be completely ridiculous for the showrunners have bent over backwards the way they have insisting that the death is permanent, only to be like "HA, we got you, didn't we?" with a later resurrection.
Carissa: There is so much talk of it now, right down to Felicity saying that "even death isn't permanent anymore," that I really think there is a method to their madness. While it could have been a timing issue to bring Andy and for Dig to deal with it, I think seeing a less than positive outcome first with Sara and then a return (not resurrection) that was again unpleasant with Andy is reminding people death can sometimes be the better option. Maybe?
Get excited for the upcoming Arrow/Flash crossover, you guys! Watch the preview for it now:
Carissa Pavlica is the managing editor and a staff writer for TV Fanatic. Follow her on Twitter.